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home : opinions : opinions July 27, 2015

8/15/2012 9:45:00 PM
Letter: Don't run the nation like a business


I agree with Bob Fiske's letter of July 7. There is definitely too much money in politics.

There also is too much talk of a candidate for president needing experience in running a business. Government is not a business and should not be run like one. The primary goal of business is to make a profit. The people's welfare is secondary. The primary goal of government is, among other aims, to "establish justice" and "promote the general welfare" of "we the people," according to the Founders.

I take issue with the editorial of July 11. If "soaking the rich" is not a good idea, is burdening the poor and the middle classes a better alternative? The rich receive much of their income from dividends and capital gains, while the poor and middle classes derive most of their income from labor. Yet, income from labor is taxed at twice the rate of income from dividends and capital gains. How does taxing both types of income at the same rate equate to "soaking the rich?" The Bush preferences are an expense American can no longer afford.

The "Bush tax cuts" is a misnomer. Let's call it what it is. It is a subsidy for those who receive income from dividends and capital gains. To end the subsidy is a responsible thing to do. In this era of concern over the size of our federal deficit, we can no longer afford the subsidy.

In her July 26 column, Ann Coulter, a Republican spokesperson, bemoans the fact that Romney and Obama are tied in the polls. That means each man has an equal chance to win. Is Ann Coulter giving up on Romney? She seems to be coming up with excuses for Romney's defeat.

What she is saying in effect is that those who vote for Democrats are voting for their special benefits. That should be no surprise. Is Ann Coulter not aware that Republicans have been doing that for years?

Mary Elsinger


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Reader Comments

Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012
Article comment by: open book

Oops, I shouldn't post before coffee.

I meant to say that President Reagan began charging the *self-employed* the full (employee and employer) share for Social Security withholding.

Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012
Article comment by: open book

Zig E: Thanks.

Accept No Substitute: I believe that you have succinctly described the situation.

Lyle: Have you ever been to an Indonesian market? Dogs are not pets in that culture.

You tell me that President Reagan "was a patriot." What is your "patriot" test? You do know, don't you, that after he saw that lowering taxes was ruining our economy, he raised taxes, including charging the employer portion of SSI to small businesses. If President Reagan's policies were scrutinized, I'm convinced that they would not pass the "conservative" test of current Republicans.

Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012
Article comment by: @ Zig E ~ Saving puppies is a good thing, but...

...I dont' think Mr. Obama saves puppies, perhaps he does, although I have yet to see this anywhere.

I do recall his admission of eating dogs, however. So, perhaps like so many other things in his administration with an ulterior motive, perhaps saving puppies has an darker purpose as well, perhaps involving lunch.

Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012
Article comment by: Lyle Sentiss: ZIg E is obsessed w/Lyle & popcorn...

Zig E, it is nice that you want to buy me some marijuana to go with your popcorn, but it is not necessary. I don't use one and cannot do the other, so please turn your Light of Obsession with myself elsewhere. Hey, I know, perhaps read a book or something other than DNC Talking Points and the latest Obamapologizer pamphlet from Newsweek Magazine. (Oops! Newsweek is now changing sides and might be supporting Romney.)

I guess the dreams of your hero's father (?) are no longer the dreams of the editorial staff at Newsweek...I sense a trend coming.

Regardless, please re-focus.

Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012
Article comment by: Accept No Substitute

As a visitor to your territory, it is not my purpose to interfere, but there is evidence of two Obamas. And it's clear that the imposter is spreading confusion, lies and discontent among the citizens.

The real Obama lives in the White House, married with kids and job with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

The other, is an imposter built by a conservative think tank, funded by billionaires created for right wing media by savvy propagandist, and sold on Fox, Rush and others. Artificial Obama has grown to about 11 feet tall, with a huge arm holding all the guns he's confiscated and the Communist Manifesto in the other.

Imposter Obama is manufactured out of conspiracies, inflated with hot rhetoric and used to scare children to bed by their confused parents who believe in the conservative fiction, and to their own economic harm.

The data from our survey has a number of anomalies that would support our conclusion, such as the impossibility of being born in two locations at the same time --- but my transporter has arrived and our study is concluded, as follows:

Conservatives have become mad by the creation of their own evil creature .

Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012
Article comment by: Zig E.

@ open book - save yourself the aggravation. Lyle has slipped completely off the rails. He apparently see me in all comments, so his raving has become nothing more than mere babbling. Obama could save puppies and Lyle would complain that puppies eat to much food for their size and therefor shouldn't be saved. Engage brain before putting mouth in gear is a lost concept for him at this point. I think that if there was ever a candidate for medical marijuana he'd be the one. Hell I'd pay for his first month.

Posted: Sunday, August 19, 2012
Article comment by: @ open book ~ Obama causes unemployment, Reagan did not

Well, open book, my criticism of Obama is not one dimensional, nor is it founded in this or that statistic. My problem is the same one I had for Clinton: No Honor. No Accountability. No Humility.

It is clear Reagan was an American patriot who served 4 (the first 4) years as a much needed leader and staunch proponent of the United States.
The USA has been floating along on the good works of Reagan for 20 years and more.

Obama is none of those things, but that is not my problem, either. Simply stated Obama is crafty and sly, and a smart politician who is very personally aggressive and double-faced person, the exact opposite of what we need in a president in this day and age.

Comparing good with bad as regards Obama, or trying to compare him to other presidents, is like pointing out all the positive things Benedict Arnold accomplished on behalf of his country, but ignoring his single act of treason, which frankly caused no real harm. As a matter of fact, Colonel Arnold conspired with his wife, and when the heat got turned on dumped her and split for England. I would expect no less from Mr. Obama.

Obama is not a man of good character, as has been evidenced many times. Never served inthe military, never done a single bit of selfless work, or so much had a job. Obama has relatives illegally living in the USA, on the government dole, who are low level criminals, he does nothing about this.

Obama has disrespected his grandmother who raised him, is vague about his past, refuses to release records while demanding others do so, seems to believe in nothing, routinely puts the country he is sworn to represent in secondary position as he bows to foreign leaders and sends US tax money to friends overseas.

In short, Obama, like Mr. Arnold, is all about himself and thus cannot be trusted.

Bad times came with him, they will leave with him.

Posted: Sunday, August 19, 2012
Article comment by: open book

I posted this a few days ago, but since unemployment is now again the topic (for Lyle anyway), I will post it again.

Unemployment for President Reagan's 1980-1984 v President Obama's 2008-2012. As you can clearly see, unemployment peaked in year 2 and was still higher at the end of the 4-year term than at the beginning.

Lyle, these patterns are very similar. I don't understand why you insist that President Obama is in some never-before trodden territory.

1980 6.3%
1984 7.3%
peak during that period in 1982 of 10.8%

2008 7.3%
2012 8.3%
peak during that perior in 2009 of 10%

1980-84 was during President Reagan's term, and he raised taxes by closing loopholes and taxing additional revenue streams, as well as increasing the SSI tax collection.

2008-12 is President Obama, and as far as I know, there have been no methods to increase taxes or tax collection rates.

Based on history, I don't see a reason to crucify President Obama over unemployment. Let's demand that our Representatives and Senators work together (like statesmen and women) to get our country going. We cannot expect the President to do this alone.

Posted: Sunday, August 19, 2012
Article comment by: @ ZIG E ...uh, no: Obama destroyed / lost 6 million jobs

When Bush was president almost everyone who wanted a job had one, under Obama almost no one has a new job, and many are losing the one they had for years.

The U.S. Labor Department shows in various employment reports that job loss has continued and the Obama Administration continues to understate the loss of jobs in the U.S. economy by an average of 55,000 every month since Obama took office.

With constantly revised employment-loss totals, the Labor Department is now reporting the economy lost 5.780 million jobs just during calendar 2009, Barack Obama's first year as President, and these job losses continue to trend down.

Most of this has been fudged by Obama's Labor Department falsely assuming employment by new startup companies whose existence is merely grabbed out of the air by a (discredited) Labor Department computer program. This computer model has been "blind and deaf to the collapse,", and counts those running out of unemployment benefits as 'hired' along with people working for minimal wage and such as 'fully employed'.

Obama is a disaster

Posted: Sunday, August 19, 2012
Article comment by: Zig E.

@ justthe facts - When Bush left office we were losing 700,000 jobs per month. We've had 42 months of positive job growth since Obama took office. In fact more jobs have been created in Obama's first term than in Bush's two terms. Additionally the current unemployment rate would be much lower if not for Republican obstructionism in congress. Just the facts. But I'm sure you knew them already.

Posted: Sunday, August 19, 2012
Article comment by: Justthe Facts

Zig e, get your facts straight. When bush loeftoffice ue rate was 7.5%

Posted: Sunday, August 19, 2012
Article comment by: Zig E.

And one last thing ( as I'm tired of wasting my time with you ) - I never said I wanted to raise taxes or tariffs on U.S. products or imports. Don't know where you got that from. Nor did I say Mormons caused the Depression. Just noting similarity's within your party. What I do want is to raise taxes on the wealthy corporations which outsource jobs ( Walmart ). No more corporate welfare. And of course I want taxes raised on YOU. No more coddling of the rich. Apparently I'm not alone in that belief. 72% of Americans feel the same way ( CNN Money poll ). So your continual squawking and snarky comments about Democrats is somewhat understandable since you know it's coming sooner or later. People who care more about the middle class will vote Democratic. Those who care more about the rich will vote Republican. It's that simple.
See ya at the polls.

Posted: Sunday, August 19, 2012
Article comment by: Zig E.

Wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression & Wikipedia.org/wiki/smoot-hawley_tariff . Apparently some historians believe that the discussions about imposing Smoot-Hawley ( 8 months, not a year after Black Tuesday ) were instrumental in starting the crash in the first place. If you want to get deeper into it, and blame France, then the Fordney-McCumber tariff of 1922 would be considered the beginning of the whole mess ( another Republican bill ).
Bottom line - The Republican party ( your beloved party ) started it, with Coolidge, then Harding, and finally your boy Hoover. No Democrats in control, house or senate. But the Democrats, as usual, had to clean up the mess. Not to go further afield with the wisdom of import tariffs, but the world was a different place in those days, having to rebuild after WW1. So, while history has shown that that tariff was wrong then in those circumstances, I do think that tariffs, or taxes, on certain corporations do make sense now. What to do when the country which is most responsible for all that cheap crap also happens to hold so much of our debt, is a big part of the problem. But so is the greed of certain corporations, such as Walmart. I notice that you never addressed my question about how much is too much when it comes to a group of 6 making more than 125 million other Americans combined. So am I to assume that in Lyle's world it would be just fine if they made more than 70% of Americans combined ? I might be wrong but I don't think history has ever shown that sort of economics works out for the country's good. It just works out for the Romney's of the time.

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: @ Zig E ~ Spins, spun, pinned...Zig E strikes out.

Zig E, I thought you said you going to go make popcorn.? Which I found wise since all your lefty debate points were shown to be bogus, and you got pinned down as a result of your own wild rants. Thus, suddenly unpinned, you bailed out and announced you were going on to some foody type endeavor, well you should have stayed in the kitchen with the popping corn.

Instead, you are back. Too bad, your pretend history lesson on the Great Depression, soon to be known as the 1st Great Depression, as unless we scrape off Obama soon there will be a second, is a load of malarkey, especially as concerns Mormons for goodness sake.

I have not the time or space to enlighten you lefty Obamanauts on Smoot-Hawley tariffs, the global depression of the 1930's, or the LDS religion so I will confine remarks simply to facts of the (first) Great Depression and your assertion that somehow raising tariffs on US products caused the depression, supported by Mormons (?) which you say started the depression in America after the 1930 passage of Smoot-Hawley.

Facts are that what we now call the Great Depression (of the 1930's) began in France in 1928, and was made with the crash of the American stock market in 1929, a full year BEFORE Smoot-Hawley, which was passed to protect American goods and farm production.

Most economists agree it was the 1920's removal of import / export tariffs, along with a raging stock market, that led to the depression in western democracies such as Europe, Britain, and then America.

So, my question to you liberals who complain about WalMart and such, is how can you on one hand find fault with importing duty free products from China -for instance- as a bad thing (under NAFTA and Most Favored Nation Status), but then turn around and declare tariff's on imported goods to the USA a bad thing.?

Liberals Motto: "Wrong yesterday. Wrong Today. Wrong Tomorrow. Besides, Bush did it."

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: Zig E.

Being the curious sort, I looked up the particulars concerning the Depression. It did indeed spread to other nations, starting, of course, with the U.S. Apparently the Smoot-Hawley act is considered the spark that lit the fire. Funny thing is that not only were Smoot and Hawley both Republicans but Smoot was a prominent leader of The Church of Jesus Christ and The Latter Day Saints. Hmm - Now that is an interesting bit of information considering you know who.

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: Zig E.

What a hoot ! I pull the string and watch you spin. So now your going to try to get your buddies off the hook for the Depression by saying that it " was world wide ". Not going to work. And Lyle - talk about self-righteous baloney. Your over inflated sense of self worth is truly amazing ! But at least your honest about your greed. Spin on guys ! I'll go make some popcorn.

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: Common Senzi

Fiat Currency System = Failure. Sooner or later the never ending growth ends and the interest catches up.

Yes, lets run the government like a business. Perhaps we can use Walmart as our business model.

Government of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations. You have the right to consume, and that is your only right. Should you fail to consume, anything you don't consume can and will be used against

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: Illiteracy reigns supreme!

The term is "PROMOTE the general welfare" not "PROVIDE the general welfare."

Promote - it teaching you to fish. Provide - is to just give you the fish, preferably someone else's fish.

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: Wow Zig E!

You say Hoover, Coolidge, and Harding were responsible for the great depression? Well, let's see now Ziggers, considering it was a world wide depression do you also want to reason that they were also responsible for that? You really need to drink a lot less of that swamp water and quit smoking your shorts - probably would do well for you to spend a lot less time in the sun buddy!
And for you Mary, You say the government isn't supposed to be run like a business. So what is your proposal sweetie - let it run like the over-size, out-of-control vacuum cleaner it has for the last four years???? Even Bill Clinton worked to reduce the size of our welfare state and where is it now? Can't find a job? Go on SSI, you're bound to find some saw bones who will help you in that endeavor. Pride, aw that's for generations gone by, just bend over and grab another government nipple and then holler like hell to tax that rich guy a little more. Oh yea, we got it all now don't we? Just sit back and whine a little louder and wait for the next government nipple! Is this the NEW American Dream? A nation of Whiners?

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: IT'S NOT THE TAXES

No problem with taxes but where and how they're spent. On other countries, fraud, waste, illegals, too much welfare and food stamps, unemployed for over 2 yrs.? That's not a good thing!!!!! Eventually, the pot runs dry!

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: @ Pinned Down Zig E & support for Leftists Greed.

Greed is a virtue in moderation, especially if that greed is limited to personal responsibility. Charity begins with ones self, and those who ignore this reality are in for a world of hurt and disappointment. Moreover, paying 'taxes' is hardly charity, or a virtue, only a necessity to keep the intemperated greedy (Democrats) from taking the rest of us down the tubes.

As the left pushes transfers it pathology of hatred, bigotry, incompetence, and racism to everyone else I think it best we keep things 'Bush' in perspective. Let's start with political context.

The "Bush Economy" was fine until Democrats, led by Pelosi and Reid, took control of the Congress and the Senate in 2007. From that point forward the US economy began to falter then fail, just like it will continue to do until Obama is out of office. Bush -predictably- started worrying about his legacy and began talking about amnesty for illegals, expanded welfare, and fiasco after (liberal) fiasco like TARP came along as a result.

The lingering effects of Bush weakness can still be seen today. This same weakness and lack of focus is why John Boehner is done politically, and why Romney / Ryan is such a threat to the left.

This same floppy weakness is why Bush is held in contempt by many conservatives, such as myself. Still, history will reveal Bush to be a much better president than he is currently perceived based on his standing strong -sort'a- against the Islamists...and even here he failed.

This is why the ranting minions of the left are reeling and lashing out at pretend monsters of some right wing evil. There is none, only facts which contain no political spin, only truth.

The truth is Obama is a failure. The truth is the country is on the rocks because people of the left are too busy trying to get even with the rich, and take them down, they forget to take care of themselves and when it is pointed out the easy response is "hate" and accusing others of greed.

For instance, it is impossible to say Obama is doing a great job on immigration, while the country is awash in cloying and demanding illegal immigrants, mostly from Mexico.

It is laughable to say Obamanomics is working when unemployment is continuing upward, American businesses are closing wholesale (even WalMarts sales are shrinking), the US is spending 40% more than it takes in, and GM is building / selling cars in China with US taxpayer funding.

This, li'l Zig E is why you are pinned down. My advice.? Try some personal greed, not covetnous, and bail yourself out. Quit waiting for Uncle Sugar to send Obama on a white unicorn to give you a check. Trust me, he ain't coming.

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: Zig E.

Lyle, only you would try to paint greed as a virtue.

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: Martin Elmore


GREAT COMMENT !!! You addressed it to TOM STEELE, but I'm sure you have noticed how many others in this queue are guilty of spouting "facts" that they either heard on FAUX NEWS or otherwise got second-hand from the trash bin of Rovian, Republican history.

It is impossible to make informed political comments in the newspaper or put together cohesive, persuasive arguments with others if one doesn't have the actual FACTS.

Folks, there can only be ONE set of FACTS and you must look elsewhere to find them. Fox News is a political operative of the Republican Party...it is not a reliable source of FACTS...they foist their opinions on you, misrepresenting them as FACTS, but they are only opinions...vetted and approved by Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch.

If asked for my opinion, the kindest way I know to describe this current crop of local Republican voters (and commenters) would be to characterize them as non-curious and NOT over-educated.

P.S. Your real name would be nice, too. At least Tom Steele does that.

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: Lyle the Great Deceiver

Lyle, if you really want us all to believe that the economy was just fine in the last 6 months of the Bush Administration, you truly are a ..... Bush turned left? You are out of your mind. Not with old man Cheney in office and Karl Rove as an advisor. Not with Paul Ryan signing onto TARP. TROUBLED Asset RELIEF Fund?! Yeah, they knew they tanked the economy.

Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2012
Article comment by: @ Zig E ~ OK...now it's income disparity.

Is it WallyWorld or more accurately Zig E Land?

Right off, I am not defending WalMart only pointing out that this corporation employs many people, and services many more. Frankly, I personally avoid WalMart whenever I can, but that is not to say they do not supply goods and services at a reasonable price, put 100's of billion$ into the US economy, employ many, and fill a wide consumer niche.

I am willing to discuss 'Income Disparity' (whatever that is) only because this matter is where you ne'er-do-well liberal Obama types go off the rails and instead of seeing oppotunity for yourself, begin wallowing in poor, poor me and what about all those rich people who need punishing by government?

First, your example of 10 cookies on a plate, when (no doubt) an evil rich Republican takes 9 of them and leaves everyone else to argue over the remaining cookie, is specious. Makes a good bumper sticker I suppose, but reality is far different.

With WalMart, for instance, the problem is its continual push to purchase only foreign made goods for sale. Still, people like yourself (I am sure) continue to buy those products in bulk, so what would you have WalMart do...go broke like Sears and K-Mart? Why? What would that accomplish?

The US economy has an unlimited amount of 'cookies' in the form of money (currency), freedom (until Obama gets done) to start your own cookie business, and a population (customer base) necessary to eat the cookies. No one is making you or anyone else sit there and argue over a remaining cookie.

Just go bake some of your own.

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